The Most Expensive Form Of Flattery
February 26, 2009 · Print This Article
Architectural ideas are not protected by copyright law. The same goes for the individual design elements, like doors and windows, that are needed to make a building work. Standard layouts are not covered either, but home designs, in general, are. They are copyrightable in any tangible form including plans and actual buildings. Since December 1, 1990, section 102 of the Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. has granted protection to the overall form and composition of such “architectural works”.
While bridges, boats, and trailers are not protected as “architectural works”, the architectural plans and technical drawings used to depict them are protected as, “pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works”. The “sculptural” part, really refers not to the plans so much, but to any part of the RV or bridge that can be called artful rather than utilitarian. In other words, something is protected as “sculptural” only to the extent that its artful qualities exist independent of its utility.
Copyright law’s purpose, as stated in Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution, is to encourage progress in the arts and sciences by giving ownership where ownership is due. If a design is inordinately similar to a previously copyrighted work, the designer could face an infringement claim. The theft is often obvious, but, when it is not, a painstaking comparison of the overall composition of the original and the building in question ensues.
All Tumbleweed Tiny Houses are copyrighted. Every one of our trailer plans has also been published as a plan without wheels to ensure that each is protected both as an “architectural work” and as “pictorial, graphic and sculptural work”. This means that Tumbleweed Tiny House Company alone retains the right to reproduce my designs, create new houses based on my designs, and allow others to build my designs by buying our plans.
Please do not steal my work. If common decency does not seem like reason enough to refrain, consider these points… 1) It costs us a lot of money and time to litigate plagiarism. I would rather spend that time creating more houses and educating folks about the merits of simple living, and I would rather put that money, as savings, into the pockets of the honest people who are buying our products. 2) I have worked hard to make my dream viable, and there is no room on my proverbial coattails for freeloaders. I spent seven years laboring to keep this business afloat on far less than most Americans make in just one year. Prior to that, I spent much of the 90s living on the street in order to save what was needed to build my first prototype. And I took enormous risk by investing everything I had in an idea completely contradictory to what market trends had shown would sell. I did this primarily because I believed it would benefit the greater good. 3) One of the unique provisions of the U.S. Copyright Act, as it relates to architecture, is the right to seek damages of up to $150,000 for willful infringement as an alternative to proving actual damages. $495 – $995 for plans is a small price by comparison. I put over 250 hours into each of my designs. $995 is really quite a good deal. $150,000 is not, especially when the structure you build may ultimately be seized by the courts.
From the beginning, my hope has been that my small houses would inspire others to live more simply and, perhaps, design their own small dwellings. I love running across an original little structure built by somebody else. If it shares some of the same qualities as my designs… all the better. If it is on wheels, or it has a 12/12 pitch metal roof or cedar siding, I like to flatter myself by imagining that maybe it was partly inspired by my work. What I do not like is running across unlicensed people’s little houses that have a 12/12 pitch metal roof, cedar siding, a pine interior, a porch opposite the hitch, a cathedral ceiling over a loft, layouts that look a lot like mine AND wheels.
While assimilating forms from a number of sources can result in beautiful works of art, taking all or most of your ideas from a single source is just stealing. Vernacular designers and folk artists have never shied away from using the good ideas of others, and I am no exception. Tumbleweed houses are composed of some of the preexisting forms I’ve encountered in countless other vernacular buildings. When these forms are combined in new ways with adherence to the laws of sacred geometry, beautiful, new compositions result. I love this process, and I look forward to seeing more beautiful works from others who embrace the same method and philosophy. This world needs more appropriately-sized, well-designed houses, but it does not need any more plagiarism.
Jay,
I have just finished reading your post. Pete and I have been working on building our VardoForTwo ever since we sat in your first workshop 2yrs ago come August. Thanks for detailing the depth and quality of your dream to build tiny homes of quality. We are experiencing first hand what it takes to design, find material, build it and then find quality ‘others’ who will work with us at both an affordable to us price and maintain our need for chemically sensible process.
It is good to read your position and knowledge of copyright protection as a means to reinforce your diligence. It reminds me of something an old crone once said, “If you have come to steal my ponies … know I will recognize them in the herd.” I appreciate your value, and grow my own translation of a beautiful, tiny home with that inspiration.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 1st, 2009 6:09 pm:
I suppose it takes hard work to know hard work, Mokihana.
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Thanks, Den. Buy the plans first. They come with a materials list.
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Donna F. reply on March 1st, 2009 6:43 am:
Hi Jay,
Now that you’ve brought it up…I have noticed and INCREDIBLE similarity between the Lodge on Wheels and your Lusby. Both have porches, both have kitchens along a wall in the front of the home, both have that spare room in the back next to the bathroom, whose only difference is that you have a regular shower, and they just built it in, looks like. They don’t have any closet storage, but there are a LOT of similarities!! Of course, they use the same siding as you.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 1st, 2009 6:46 pm:
Julie’s first house for sale was actually one I designed and built for her. She did not know that she couldn’t claim it as her own, but, since then, she’s been trying to turn it into something new via photoshop. I’ve been cutting her some slack because she is making serious effort and I like her general intention (besides, unlike others, at least she paid me for something).
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Hey Jay – Is there site to which I can e-mail you photo? It was taken in the seventies and is of a beautiful cottage built on the back of a vintage truck. It utilized recycled doors and windows and was sided in cedar. Talk about inspirational! I’m sure many young hippies emulated, as we did, that charming building. Your creative small homes help link the generations that have not only been admiring, but living, the “less is more” credo for many years. Because as many of us know – “its good to be wee!” (By the way, that’s copyrighted…) C. Jones Irish, Wee Irish Cottages
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Jay Shafer reply on March 1st, 2009 6:32 pm:
Please do send it to info@tumbleweedhouses.com, Mike. I’d love to see it. I have the book ‘Rolling Homes” which is full of hippy houses that inspired my designs.
Wee shall overcome! (this, too, is copyrighted, but true).
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Hey, Jay….. Things are thriving, for you.., so much so that some would rip you off… Yours was a nice retort…. Bust them…!
I have a client who wants to put a collection of 8 or 9 of yours, in the SF Bayview District, on a 50 X 120 lot…….for a “Senior, Affordable Village”.
Cheers,
jb in SF
I will be followiing up…
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Jay Shafer reply on March 1st, 2009 6:34 pm:
Oh, now that would be a dream come true! I have updated plans for you if you want them, Jack.
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jack barry reply on March 1st, 2009 7:55 pm:
Jay… Soon as my client’s escrow is 100% solid, we shall get together at the site, with you and my client…
jb
http://www.jackbarryrealtors.com
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Here’s an idea: include a “Certificate of Authenticity” with the plans and a small, numbered, brass plate to be affixed to the exterior.
Cheers
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Jay Shafer reply on March 1st, 2009 6:47 pm:
Good idea.
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Jay,
I have been a huge fan of your little houses for many years. I also abhor theft of anyone’s legitimate intellectual property. While it is very easy to claim “copyright” it is another thing to defend it.
“An important limitation on the scope of copyright protection is the idea/expression dichotomy: While copyright law protects the expression of an idea, it does not protect the idea itself.”
“In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.”
(quotations as found on wikipedia)
Someone selling actual copies of your plans without your permission might get into trouble. Someone selling tiny houses built with your plans may be as well. But only if you trouble them.
In my opinion, someone selling or building a somewhat similar house, on or off wheels, will not violate your copyrights.
Claiming intellectual property (IP) rights for a house on or off wheels with a “12/12 pitch metal roof, cedar siding, a pine interior, a porch opposite the hitch, a cathedral ceiling over a loft” is legally absurd.
You should have applied for at least a design patent on your idea(s). At this point since you have made your “idea” public knowledge for this length of time you can no longer do that.
You will have to gamble money on a good IP attorney to have proper intellectual property protections in place for ideas you want to prevent others from mimicking privately or public.
My recommendation is that you lower the price of your plans.
That will do more to persuade one to buy your plans then it will to threaten legal consequences if they “copy” them.
All the best
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betsy reply on March 3rd, 2009 5:42 pm:
okay, this is getting crazy! this blog (not necessarily THIS particular location, but the blog as a whole) is almost becoming a war zone lately!!
lowering prices might afford people to buy more plans…HOWEVER, it will NOT stop others from stealing stuff that is NOT theirs! NOR will people that say they will buy them at that lower price actually do so!!!
if you don’t like the prices here, find another place to buy a set of plans! i bet their price won’t change because you start whining!! from what i can see, there are plenty of places to buy small house plans around!! don’t you GET it?? it’s just like buying a brand new stereo…the sticker says $1000…you either BUY it and quite complaining or you find another stereo…DUH!!!
as a pen & ink artist, i often draw detailed, architectural drawings and renderings. unfortunately, someone could copy one of my drawings, add a line or 2 or maybe some different shading or an extra tree, sign their name, place a copyright symbol next to it, put it on a tee shirt to sell and it would NOT violate MY COPYRIGHT. it sucks, but its true. i know because it has happened! luckily my lawyer scared them off.
when it comes to SOME people, i can tell you that they are never happy no matter what you do! you could offer a thousand designs or a thousand colors and they want something different.
i have another job so my artwork isn’t my livelihood, nor would i want it to be since it takes the enjoyment out of it when i have to deal with people. but jay DOES do this for a living. he has a right to charge any price he wants to!! the way i see it, we either buy it at that price or stop complaining and go somewhere else.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 5th, 2009 7:10 pm:
Thanks, Rob of he Shire.
It’s true that copyright does not cover ideas, but it does cover house designs. Claiming rights for a house on or off wheels with a “12/12 pitch metal roof, cedar siding, a pine interior, a porch opposite the hitch, a cathedral ceiling over a loft” would be absurd, but there was an “AND” (capital letters and all) in the statement you are quoting. It is the composition of elements as a whole along with general layouts that is protected.
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Yeah, I too wonder if lowering your prices for plans might spur more people to buy them. If you sold twice the plans for half the cost, then you’d (almost) make as much as if you sold one set at the current price.
Even though I’m way off from building one, I’d be much more likely to pony up $495 rather than $995. That way I’d have the plans & materials list and I could start scrounging together all the materials at the used building supply store.
It’s the old supply vs. demand thing.
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Rob in the Shire reply on March 3rd, 2009 3:43 am:
Yes, most people considering the small houses you have designed do so because they are looking for a smaller cost in general.
Most likely I will only ever dream of building one of these houses. However, a $200 small house plan cost fits inside my 100 square foot dream.
I read that the “Bolt Together House” designed by Jeff Milstein sold over 10,000 sets of plans after it was shown in an article in Family Circle magazine (March 1972) The plans cost, if memory my serves me: US $29.99. BTW, I purchased that very Family Circle issue for sale on Ebay a few years ago and subsequently purchased the plans (PDF) through another website (unrelated to Family Circle Magazine) for about the same amount.
Of the 10,000 plans sold how many were ever built? ( I think the number built is closer to 0 than it is to 10,000)
Jay, we all think that your house are way cool! The reality is that many of us will only get to dream about building one.
With less expensive plans we might actually be closer to waking up from the collective dream and hitting our heads on a ceiling of your design.
Peace and Chocolate Milk,
Rob in the Shire
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Donna F. reply on March 3rd, 2009 5:51 am:
I don’t know how to speak here without boring everyone with way too much personal information that they’re not interested in hearing anyway. Suffice it to say that $30 is comfortable for someone in my situation. Though the plans are worth MUCH more than that, even at 1/2 price I still continue to be a dreamer instead of a Tiny Home Owner.
But, this is Jay’s BUSINESS (not a charity). He has people working for him that must also feed their families. This is his product and he can charge whatever he desires.
Now, if Jay were to file 501c3 paperwork to become a non-profit, he could set his own salary and the salary of his employees and probably get subsidies and grants from the federal gov’t and sell his plans for $30. Although his fame is great, he’s not a Walmart yet, he’s still a Mom & Pop, therefore, prices have to remain high in order to cover costs.
Like I say, I just appreciate the inspiration and the fact that he even sells the plans in the first place! I keep thinking one day I’ll be able to afford them, and I’m looking forward to that day!
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Drew reply on March 3rd, 2009 9:29 pm:
No one is asking for hand-outs. No one is mistaking this site for Habitat for Humanity.
What critics are simply suggesting is a business strategy to bolster Jay’s sales in a declining economy.
For example, Jay probably has a huge cult following on this site. They would more than likely support his business if they had the resources but for many, economic reality is a bitch.
Many are simply discouraged from taking the next step in owning and building a Tiny House because they are daunted by the $1,000 price tag of a plan.
Rob makes a valid argument. Jay’s bread and butter market are people who would be more inclined to spend $495 on a plan, not $1,000. As a consequence, these budget-conscious buyers or lurkers find creative sources elsewhere in building their own Tiny Home instead.
The point being, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing in business. Why let this market escape to the competition?
Jay Shafer reply on March 5th, 2009 6:38 pm:
We’ve found that those unwilling to shell out the $1000 for quality plans are unlikely to buy any case, as the thousands for materials and hundreds of hours in labor to finish things off would surely prohibit them from doing so.
The plans sometimes take me more time to develop than it takes to build a house. I need due compensation if this business is to survive. Other small house companies spend FAR less on design. I propose that anyone wanting cheaper plans or houses visit the “resources” link at the bottom of every page on our website or simply buy a used RV for $3000.
Jay Shafer reply on March 5th, 2009 6:39 pm:
P.S. But still, good ideas to consider as we are able, Drew.
Jay Shafer reply on March 5th, 2009 6:54 pm:
Thanks, Rob of the Shire.
We’ve found that those unwilling to shell out the $1000 for quality plans are unlikely to buy them at any price. The thousands for materials and hundreds of hours in labor to finish things off would further deter them from doing so.
A single set of plans sometimes takes me more hours to develop than it takes to build a whole house. I need due compensation if this business is to survive. Other small house companies spend FAR less time at the drawing board, and their prices reflect it. I propose that anyone wanting cheaper plans or houses visit the “resources” link at the bottom of every page on our website or simply buy a used RV for $3000.
I appreciate your well-reasoned proposal, but I have to continue charging what I do until we find a better way to cover our expenses.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 5th, 2009 6:58 pm:
We tried that for a few years to no avail. We found that those unwilling to shell out the $1000 for quality plans are unlikely to buy them at any price. The thousands for materials and hundreds of hours in labor to finish things off would further deter them from doing so.
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There’s a marketing theory that says you can lower the price and increase sales to a point of maximimum profits, then go further to a point of diminishing returns. If price is dropped 10%, one might get a 20% increase in sales. Drop it 20% and only get a 15% increase, etc. The trick is to find the “sweet spot” . I’d be tempted to run some “price adjustment” trials, trying to increse the number of plans sold. Maybe a “First-Time Builder” “Recession Reduction” Sale. “Be your own “Housing Stimulus”…..Build a Tiny House. Plans on sale till……….
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Here are some ways to lower the cost of building a Tiny Home.
1. Attend a Jay Shafer Work Shop and learn about the most difficult aspects of the building/design process without ponying up 1 grand for the plans
2. Buy a Plan and Build it on the Cheap like Dee Williams
3. Avoid blatant piracy and plaigirism by Googling for Tiny Homes and borrow certain characteristics and elements without blatantly stealing it, if possible
4. Borrow Books on Tiny House/Cabins. Learn about Solar Power, Composting, Water Harvesting and Wood/Propane Stoves
5. Negotiate and haggle. Organize into 5s or 10s and ask for Group Discount Rates.
6. Talk to as many Builders/Carpenters as possible. The information is usually free.
7. Share building materials, tools, ideas on consortiums, forums and blogs
8. Master Google Sketch
9. Raise the money by being creative. If you have the marketing savvy like Jay, produce a documentary on the Tiny House Movement and sell it to PBS or the Discovery Channel. And if you enlist the help of a famous environmentalist like Thom Yorke, Casey Affleck or Daryl Hannah, you will be printing money.
10. Be patient and wait for either market corrections, saturation or fire sales to secure the deal you are looking for.
11. Buy a shed from Lowes. Insulate it with Soy. Install a loft, storage areas, RV wet bath, Little Cod Wood Stove, basic Solar PV panels, basic Water Manifold system, small propane stove, etc.
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Donna F. reply on March 4th, 2009 5:13 am:
Home Depot has a two-story shed…this could make a nice dwelling place if tricked out right. If someone had a piece of property that they owned outright, then this would be an inexpensive route…the building was around 10 grand, then you would have to invest extra money in order to make it a home.
Those Ikea small apartments they have set up in their showroom are very inspirational, indeed. I saw the one in Houston, TX. They had a loft bed with a closet underneath it! I love that store!
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Buying a well thought out set of plans seems to be a better use of one’s time than trying to figure it all out on your own. The cost of the plans is small in comparison to the time and money you spend building the house. The cost is too high for people who aren’t seriously planning to build a house, but they are a bargain if you actually plan to build a house. I’m too lazy to learn everything Jay has learned to design a house of this quality.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 5th, 2009 6:12 pm:
It seems that I have some of the most thoughtful people defending me. I wish I had said that.
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Shannon Rose reply on March 21st, 2009 7:29 pm:
I absolutely agree! I wouldn’t dare try to come up with the ingenious plans Jay has so thoughtfully created. I bought a bus a year ago and have been trying to make it cozy ever since. NOT an easy feat. As a matter of fact, I’m now putting it up for sale so that I can buy one of Jay’s houses because it turned out to be more than I could do.
I’d gladly shell out the grand for the brains behind this one!
peace, love, and raw food!
Shannon Rose
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Justin Peer reply on March 28th, 2009 12:41 am:
In my case, financial issues mean that I couldn’t afford to spend $1k on plans, that’s almost 10% of my total budget. Also, figuring out how to do this is all part of the enjoyment of the project. My plan to build using as much recycled and second hand material means my plan is continuously evolving as I find things to work with.
Jay has been hugely influential in getting me to where I am but, having lived in tiny apartments, camper vans and shared accomodation I have ideas of my own to incorporate.
If you’re going to build a house on a trailer, then you’re limited to the types of design that will work. Loft roof is a natural use of space, it makes sense for the porch to go the other end to the hitch, wood is the easiest of materials for new builders to work with.
Other people are putting tiny house designs out into public domain, they’re quite similar to Jay’s designs, there’s only so many ways you can fit everything you need into 100 square feet.
The learning process is a big part of why I’m doing this. I’ll build a bigger place eventually, but this will keep me housed and learning until the next place comes along.
I link back to Jay from my blog, mention his houses often as inspiration and whenever I tell people about my own house the first place I direct them is Jay’s website. My house will be similar to a tumbleweed, indeed inspired by it, but it won’t be a tumbleweed.
Jay, you’ve been a massive influence on so many people, perhaps one way we can repay you, if we can’t afford the plans, is to at least point as many people as we can towards your site in the hope that others may buy the plans for their own tumbleweed home.
J.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 31st, 2009 12:36 pm:
Love your site, Justin. I can’t wait to see it done.
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Rachael reply on April 23rd, 2009 1:11 am:
I completely agree with you, you said pretty much everything I’ve been thinking while reading this post and all of these comments. Good luck with your new home!
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I must say, If you plan to make your tumbleweed your sole home – then the cost of these plans in the big scheme of things is a bargain. At least once you lay that down then you know in yourself your serious about this, are you more likely to follow through on a $20 or a $1000 investment? I’m also sorry to bring people down with a bump, but I’m an electrician by trade and if you cant stretch this initial amount you don’t want to get me in for a quote to do the electrics in your tumbleweed! (due to the nature of the house its subject to stricter laws than a house on a foundation – in the UK at least) For myself personally tumbleweed isn’t about living for as little $$$ as possible, of course that’s a bonus. It’s more about my impact on the planet, I would love to buy the biggest plot of land I could afford, roll my tumbleweed on it, then once I’m dead and gone the tiny house can be rolled away and that piece of land will look untouched – what a satisfying thought.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 5th, 2009 5:58 pm:
So true, Nick. $1000 for quality plans is just a drop in the bucket compared to the thousands needed for materials and the hundreds of hours to be spent building. Those looking for a cheaper, easier way to get a home mine might consider checking out the small house companies listed at our “resources” link at the bottom of every page on our site. There are MUCH cheaper plans for sale there if affordability is your primary concern.
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Donna F. reply on March 22nd, 2009 3:29 am:
Well, my daddy had the shell of a Jim Walter built when I was a tiny child, and he plumbed it for water and gas and wired it himself. The house was safe and continues to stand today!
So, I will be wiring my own home when I start this process. If I can fix a toilet leak by pulling up the toilet and re-seating it all by myself, I’m sure I can handle the electric part as well. (The “how-to” is on the internet and I AM capable of reading instructions!)
I have more time than I have money!
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I appreciate the craftsmanship, art and time-tested designs of Jay’s Tiny Homes as most of his regulars here do.
However, in a declining economy with mounting job losses, soaring deficits and corrupt Government Bureaucrats, the price structure of Jay’s Plans have been the target of some criticism due to what some believe to be unreasonable.
The $1,000 fee for a Plan doesn’t reflect current economic realities.
Given these market conditions, consumers will seek the maximum value for their depreciated dollars.
It’s called the Power of the Purse.
If businesses are unwilling to lower fees, consumers will simply shop elsewhere or go it alone by “borrowing” many elements from Tiny Homes they find on Google Images.
People who love the Epu struggle with the fact that it cost $1,000 for the Plans when a full-sized Ross Chapin home cost the same.
People who could afford to buy a fully-built Epu would likely consider that a modern Tiny Home with the coolest gadgets made by a Canadian competitor can be purchased for almost half the fee.
People who insist on building an Epu replica could just as easily consult with experienced Carpenters for their input without actually dropping a thousand for the plans.
This partly explains the proliferation of plaigiarized designs out there. While I abhor this encroachment, I believe its only going to get worse for Tiny Home Businesses as tighter financial constraints force people with limited means to be more “resourceful”.
This is not what Jay or his apologists want to hear but its a growing trend I’ve noticed.
To survive under this Socialist Administration, it’s about making adjustments and compromises. Businesses that fail to adapt will eventually lose market share.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 5th, 2009 5:21 pm:
Well put, Drew.
As you so clearly state, it is often difficult for people to see any reason to pay as much for plans for a small house as they would for plans for a much larger one. Unfortunately, we have to charge what we do for plans because of expenses at our end. As I’m sure Ross himself will tell tell you, designing small spaces well is far more difficult and time consuming than designing larger ones. I put several hundred hours into every design. A small, well-designed home is almost an invariably front-heavy investment per square foot for the buyer and the producer (see my blog entry, “The Cost of Frugality” http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/blog/).
By now there are a lot of other small house companies out there who do sell a lot more houses and plans than we do. Their focus is on affordability, and, as their sales and several comments on this board show, affordability is something many North Americans vehemently desire. To these earnest folks I can only say, “Please support our friends out there who are targeting the more affordable market, and please don’t try to steal my bread and butter. It costs us a lot, and it could cost you a lot, too (please see ‘The Most Expensive Form of Flattery’ above)”. The people running these companies work as hard to keep the cost of their products down as I do to produce quality designs. They don’t spend countless hours at the drawing table because, if they did, their products would no longer be cheap, and their volume would be reduced to something like ours.
Perhaps we will be able to reduce our prices someday, but, for now, it looks like those interested in cheap small houses plans will have to go elsewhere.
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Drew reply on March 5th, 2009 6:27 pm:
Jay,
I hear you. I understand the mundane complexities of small businesses which most consumers would never see in their analysis.
As the unofficial “face” of the Tiny House Movement, most enthusiasts would rather support your business for many reasons over the less expensive others. Yet the biggest obstacle for many prospective buyers out there is the initial cost of buying the plans.
Personally, I could afford to pay for it. My station in life, unconstitutional zoning laws in Massachusetts and other circumstances would prevent me from taking that next step. Until things change, my only cardinal joy is to dream about living in one of your wicked pisser cool homes.
The true, die-hard fan of yours–the same lurker who hits the refresh button on the Fencl every 15 minutes–are the very people who would buy a Plan for $495 in a nanosecond.
They love you. You seem to be very good at what you do. Can’t we compromise?
Try this. Offer “limited” Plans for a brief trial period. This may be a golden opportunity to turn those lurkers and stalkers into paying customers!
Better yet, upgrade your existing $1,000 platform with “instructional DVDs” and other little helpful goodies and offer a reduced bare-bones plan at half the rate.
In Sales, 50% of something is still better than 100% of nothing.
I would rather see you profit than to see heart-broken enthusiasts wander elsewhere for alternatives.
I can’t defend thieves on any moral high ground but if plans are out of reach to the majority of potential buyers, these parasites will only cut into your profits and ideas because they love your designs and the alternative is rather dull and ugly.
Lastly, I do hope you take my previous recommendation to produce a full documentary on the Tiny House Movement.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 5th, 2009 7:15 pm:
Great minds think alike. I am starting the documentary this week.
Donna F. reply on March 6th, 2009 2:43 am:
My page of choice for refreshing is the testimonials page! I thought I was the only one who did that!
Holy cow! I never would have imagined that having to pay $1000 for house plans would have scared anyone away. Are you people serious? Would you really abandon the whole idea of building your own Lusby or EPU, just because the plans cost $1000, instead of $500? This is a $50k house! The $1000 cost of plans represents only two percent of the total cost.
OK. I drool over these tiny houses as much as anyone, so why haven’t I bought plans? My excuses are these: I do not have a parcel of land, and I live in a big city that currently prohibits living in tiny houses.
If the economic downturn forced me out of my job, then I might actually move to a location that allows me to own a Lusby. If this situation became my new reality, and if I did not have $1000 to spend on house plans, then I would dig ditches or engage in any other low-wage occupation, to generate the $1000.
There is a practical solution to almost everything. Forgo some lattes, smokes, booze, or whatever, and save up the cash. Here is a question: How much do you really want to own a tiny house?
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Den reply on March 7th, 2009 5:45 am:
I agree. I willing to pay for the details on how it all works. It’s obvious that much thought was put into the plans. The only reason I haven’t bought yet, is deciding which one to build. Though I currently rent and don’t own any land, I plan to build it, now and then move it to my land, when I find it.
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Charmaine D. reply on March 28th, 2009 3:51 pm:
Jay’s designs are genius and full of heart and art
, in my opinion. I’ve been daydreaming and doodling sketches/plans of my own little tiny living spaces/vehicles since I was in first grade, but I don’t have architectural training or building experience. I’m willing to let Jay be the expert on that stuff! His designs are far beyond anyone else’s I’ve seen so far. I do have lots of ideas floating around in my head about how I would tweak Jay’s designs to fit my own needs and preferences. I’ve read numerous small house books over the years, including Rolling Homes, Handmade Houseboats, and many others. All of these have fueled my imagination, and I have also lived in small travel trailers and spent a good bit of time on small sailboats, in tents, and in tiny, 125-year-old farmhouse-shacks, etc. I would want to apply all of that experience to my final determination of what I want.
I also rove the web constantly for more inspiration! Once I have settled on the layout I want and I am in a position, logistically, to begin a tiny house (or purchase one), I would definitely want to pay Jay to tweak one of his plans for me (who knows, he may have come up with even more genius designs by then!), and possibly even to build the finished product, in order to keep me from getting into trouble with my lack of know-how, and also out of sheer appreciation for the time and thought and heart he has put into Tumbleweed.
For anyone having trouble with the cost of plans, there are many solutions to that problem. For example:
Work at one or two or three jobs you don’t like, for a limited amount of time, in order to amass the extra money you need to buy the plans and to put a big dent in the building materials. This is not a bad trade when you consider the long-term benefits. (See the great book Your Money or Your Life, by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin.)
Deliver pizzas on the side to make extra money. If you have a goal in mind and know it’s not forever, it’s not bad! I paid my way through a couple of years of college that way and got through some tight spots with that when there was nothing else available.
Get a part-time job flipping burgers (or whatever) for some extra cash, if you are just surviving without a job. For heaven’s sake, in six months, with the extra income you could easily afford both the plans and a trailer to get started! Then you could scrounge for building materials to your heart’s delight.
For whatever your situation, if there’s a will, there’s a way.
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M'Grace reply on February 27th, 2010 3:00 pm:
Interested in hearing more about unconstitutional zoning laws and what we can do. My biggest block to this is not being ‘allowed’ to put an RV on any of the properties I’m considering. I think we need to start mass-breaking unreasonable laws!
$1000 surprised me. On the other hand, everyone I know who’s built anything talks about how much grief good plans save and how much easier it is to get it the way you want it the first time. I think what this price tag does is make me really think about what I want, and that’s good. See you at the workshop!
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Here’s my amusing theory on the Tiny Home Movement.
From my non-scientific observations, people who are interested in these Tiny Homes fall into several categories.
1. The Return-to-the-Land Homesteader: This person is your classic, burnt-out caricature of the American Dreamer who wants to reclaim his body and soul from the shackles of the bloodless, money-grubbing conglomerate he works for (see the film “Revolutionary Road”)
2. The fringe Bottom-Dweller: This person has survived on the bare necessities of life ranging from social hand-outs to unemployment benefits to thankless jobs. Ironically, the desirability of Tiny Homes represents an upward move on the totem pole for these dreamers since it would mean attaining that elusive sense of independence and home ownership.
3. The Idealist: This person is your garden-variety progressive who would generously give unwavering and blind sycophantic assurances to Al Gores pseudo-scientific doom and gloom global revelations. He’s probably sold on the merits of Hybrid Technology, recycles religiously, adheres to a Vegan diet yet probably lives in an urban environment.
The Homesteader would likely look for more agrarian options in selecting his home. Although Tiny Homes may be appealing for him due to its energy efficiency, it may not be entirely practical for long range utilitarian possibilities.
The Idealist is someone with a ruling passion in all facets of Sustainability. Among his arsenal of concepts and ideas, he frequents this site to keep himself abreast of new designs.
However, like everything else in life, one idea would supplant another rather quickly. Inevitably, the novelty will wear off. One day he’s intrigued by the rustic charm of the Epu, the next day he can’t stop visualizing himself inside the modern aesthetics of a Micro-Compact Home. And if his career, family or other circumstances get in the way, he could spend his free time on Google Sketch, search for Shipping Pallets or “play house” next his parent’s 3,500 sq. ft. home.
This leaves us with the fringe Bottom-Dweller. Although his resources are severely limited, he represents the target market for Tiny Homes because this would eliminate his two biggest obstacles in securing shelter–high rents and 30 year mortgages. He is also deadly serious about building a Tiny Home because unlike the Homesteader suffering from a career crisis or the Idealist suffering from ADD, carving out a parcel of land with a Tiny Home on it would be his crowning achievement in life.
And as a result, prospective buyers will continue to ask for discounts and Tiny Home Designers will continue to find unlicensed replicas of their Homes on the web.
The way to prevent this from happening is to allow competitive market forces lower price structures. As more Tiny Home Companies develop, a greater diversity of designs and prices will eventually curb the whining and the piracy.
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Drew reply on March 8th, 2009 12:22 am:
Donna,
If you took umbrage at my satirical caricature of the marketplace, my deepest apologies. Humor was presumably lost due to the monotony of cyber-speak.
Read the follow up post I wrote down below for a more fitting description of what I believe Jay’s true buyer is like or should be like.
Btw, I would classify myself as an Idealist with ADD.
My point and only point is this–Jay can still profit enormously if he tweaked his business model to reflect economic realities. That reality is predicated on the bullet-proof axiom of “knowing your client”. His client, as I argued down below, isn’t Mr. Snooty Van Snoot or the part-time Environmentalists.
I love his designs. I could afford to buy any of his homes. Yet, I am not his primary target market due to my circumstances and profession.
As you yourself noted, the person who is disenfranchised by the rat race or harmed by nature’s wrath may gain the biggest traction.
Dropping the subject I could do. Will it resurface again? More than likely. However, if you’ve read my previous posts, the intent was for Jay to bolster his sales and making an argument on behalf of the less privileged.
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NO IT WON’T!!!
people will continue to whine EVEN AFTER you drop your price to an embarrassing level, lower your personal standards as a craftsman, make yourself feel cheap by people that have nothing else to do but complain about money, bargain until your want to wring their necks, go hungry yourself or even give it away for almost nothing!!! In light of all that, CHEAP can be EXPENSIVE to a person who has to fight for their asking price AND for their worthy product!!
by NOT ALLOWING competitive market forces to make you lower YOUR OWN PRICE shows you won’t back down to the pressure of those who refuse to just ACCEPT someone’s talent for what it’s really worth and to realize you have something that is a lot more unique here than just some run-of-the-mill, money-hungry competition that sees how successful the tiny house is becoming and wants to grab a piece of the action at ANY COST and by being CHEAP!!
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Drew reply on March 7th, 2009 11:49 pm:
Why are you sure that market forces WILL NOT determine the price fluctuations of the Tiny Home space?
Why are Tiny Homes exclusive from the whims that drive every other segment of the free market economy?
Are you implying that the nefarious Comrades in the White House are plotting the demise of our capitalistic system through unreasonable taxation, water-tight regulation and redistribution of wealth? If you are, then I am partially in agreement with you but I suspect this is not what you meant. Call it a hunch.
If you’ve been following this thread, the argument posited by budget-conscious lurkers is that piracy is a consequence of unreachable price points on plans.
I don’t agree with piracy but if you could build a near replica of a Lusby using similiar materials, what’s to prevent these people from doing it?
Copyright laws? It’s about as enforceable as Puritanical Blue Laws. If they elect to sell it, they could easily tip-toe their way around designs and legalities.
The target market for these Tiny Homes is not as demographically wide as you are led to believe. People who are interested in Sustainable Homes have an abundance of options at their disposal. The hard-core disciple of Sustainable living would likely build their own shelter out of straw bale or mud. The lukewarm but deep-pocketed follower would probably retain a LEED-certified construction company.
And this is where Tiny Home Companies can fill the gaping whole between the primitive bungalows and the gaudy McPreFabs.
The niche market is the over-educated, underemployed, economically-maligned, independent-minded, off-grid thinker. These people aren’t cheap. They are disadvantaged according the maxims of the Cabots, the Lodges and the Jones.
As I noted and strongly believe, the more privileged would likely buy the fancier PreFab models with all the bells and whistles.
The person with the financial means to freely press the “Purchase Button” on Jay’s plans and who absolutely love these Tiny Homes are likely fence-sitting dreamers who are too strapped by demands and duties to buy one. Guest homes or Campers are likely but they represent a fraction of the take, my guess.
As Jay can tell you, he can appreciate what it’s like to live with limited financial means. His own idea of “not having a mortgage or paying high rents” is the dictum and direction of the seething mass of open admirers he’s unwittingly priced out.
What to do?
Like all things, supply and demand WILL shape the market.
If Jay views his designs as the Mercedes Benz of Tiny Homes, he’s empowered to price them accordingly and he should be confident to not allow complacency in his craft. Unfortunately, people who love his designs but can’t afford it don’t believe its a Mercedes which is why they want it in the first place.
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Drew, there is something for everybody. There are plenty of tiny-house web sites selling quite inexpensive homes. Their common theme is providing a nice shell with a few amenities. Even the really nice ones (e.g., the ones from Texas) are really just beautiful shells with nice simple interiors.
The one feature that (in my opinion) boosts the desirability of Tumbleweed homes above the other homes is the efficiency of the layout. Tumbleweed homes have well-placed closets, cupboards, cabinets, etc., that I find immediately useful. Most other tiny home designs would require me to choose suitable placement for these features. With Jay having lived in tiny homes for years, he has a better understanding than most designers, about suitable placement of features within a tiny house. It is Jay’s understanding (and implementation) that I think justifies a higher price for Tumbleweed houses and plans. Again, anyone restricted to paying $100–$500 for house plans can buy plans elsewhere or draw their own. The world is a marketplace.
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Drew reply on March 8th, 2009 4:10 pm:
Lester,
I agree. Options and diversity can act as a buffer against the sterile homogenous sameness of the copycat crowd.
Jay’s interior spatial considerations gain the most accolade. However, does it truly justify the $500 plus increase over his next competitor?
The business, number-crunching side of my brain believes that extra chunk of change is geared towards operational expenditures, not because he installed Ikea-esque storage spaces.
To remedy this, Jay could push his plans in volume. The quality of his designs should haul in a wider, much bigger audience if the prices were more accessible. It’s a win win. Jay makes a killing and aspiring Tiny Home Owners get to build his design using reclaimed material.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 9th, 2009 7:34 pm:
I guess I should have pointed this out some time ago, Drew, but we do also sell shells and plans for shells through our portfolio. They are half the price of our finished designs. We offer this as one alternative to those unable or unwilling to shell out the $1000 for a set of plans or $40K for a finished house. I figure it’s also great for those who would like a more open and/or flexible interior. This is a well-designed version of what most other companies are selling as their standard finished product, which clearly explains the price difference.
Shells are available for the Epu, Tarleton, Lusby and for our little 40 square foot Vardo. Plans for each cost $499.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 9th, 2009 7:25 pm:
Thanks, Lester. I guess I should have pointed this out some time ago, but we do also sell shells and plans for shells through our portfolio. They are exactly half the price of our finished designs. We offer this as one alternative to those unable or unwilling to shell out the $1000 for a set of plans or $40K for a finished house. I figure it’s also great for those who would like a more open and/or flexible interior. This is a well-designed version of what most other companies are selling as their standard finished product, which clearly explains the price difference.
Shells are available for the Epu, Tarleton, Lusby and for our little 40 square foot Vardo. Plans for each cost $499.
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As a merchant who sells bicycles, I frequently encounter people who believe a price tag is always something to be chiseled away at, that nothing has a value that can’t be talked down, or copied or stolen.
Doing this in connection with a bicycle is one thing.
But living in a house that I knew was based on a theft–I would never get a good night’s sleep.
Jay’s work is worth it.
Save where you can, but don’t steal a plan.
– Michael McGettigan/trophy bikes philly
Oh, and I’m not that fond of the poet Rudyard Kipling… but he said it well….
“They copied all they could follow–but they couldn’t copy my mind…. and I left ‘em sweating and stealing–a year and a half behind.”
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Jay Shafer reply on March 9th, 2009 7:30 pm:
Nice quote, Michael. The new “Small House Book” with your beautiful photo in it comes back from the printer today. I will send you a copy.
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betsy reply on March 10th, 2009 12:17 am:
jay, i bought your set of books a couple of months ago. is the new ’small house book’ you mentioned here (the one that is just getting back from the printer) different than the one i bought? betsy
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Jay Shafer reply on March 13th, 2009 8:03 pm:
It is, Betsy. What you have is now to be known as the three volume limited edition. The new one is to be a 198 page perfect bound with similar stuff, but dozens of new color pictures and a lot more about how to build your own house. It turns out it will be back next Tuesday. I can’t wait to see it.
Drew, I think you are brutally beating a dead horse, here. Betsy, Donna, and Michael are correct. Trying to convince Jay to reduce the price of Tumbleweed house plans to $500 is a wasted effort. The $500 price point is not the holy grail of house plans. If the price were to drop to $500, then you probably would insist that $250 is a reasonable price.
Someone who cannot afford to pay $1000 for a particular set of house plans should seek plans elsewhere. Is this not how the market works? Using your automobile analogy about Mercedes-Benz, how reasonable would it be for someone to step into a Mercedes-Benz dealership and insist on being allowed to buy a Mercedes SLK two-seater (~$60k) for the price of a Mazda MX-5 Miata two-seater (~$25k)? Would this request pass the reasonableness test?
A co-worker of mine (whose husband earns a very high income) spent more than $2500 on plans for their new tri-level monster custom home. Should my co-worker have insisted that the architect lower the price of the plans to $1250? In response to receiving such an absurd request, the architect would (quite reasonably) have shown her the door or provided her with plans for only the exterior of her home. Some things cost more than others. This is life.
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Interesting economic model. It’s being used here in agriculture, but could be a healing system used elsewhere. . .
http://livepower.org/About/new_economics.html
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dear jay
Bravo getting them talking about it is more then half the battle
I on the other hand i like to put my money where my mouth is
i have such a respect for not only your plans and buildings but your integrity so i offer you this
i will gladly build any of your structures for your clients at the advertised retail cost ( to be picked up at our shop ) and pay you twice the retail price of corresponding plans. A s you know we build quite a few large and small structures and i can promise your name and company logo will be attached to each structure solely Once more we will actually duplicate every detail that you specify.
Again I think you are doing a wonderful job , as you stated last year you didnt build a structure , well lets collaborate . You can take this from where it comes you are the only company in 30 years that i have offered this to.
As far as who is dreaming about a little building . Everyone I have built 10 bedroom 6 bath homes and the family had us build an 8 x 16 guest cottage off in the woods and you know when they have guests they fight to stay in the tiny house.
Tiny houses, mini cabins are wishful thinking for some for others an upcoming necesisity either because of economy, empty nesters social environmental awareness etc. I think , and I am no shrink but its like when your in a little building its liken to being back in a cave or treefort or tent it brings us all ( no matter how wealthy ) to a time in our lives when things where just simpler , what a beautiful thing. When I have a client step into a little building I watch there eyes they get big with wonderment and the possibility of ” can it be just this simple” and I say yes it can.
But most of the time they run right back to what they know, it takes someone “brave” to give up all the “fru fru” . And as far as being able to afford it , financing is key.
I really enjoy your site and the “spirited” conversations.
Thanks for your time and keep up the great work
Bill Rockhill owner Bear Creek Carpentry
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Jay Shafer reply on March 9th, 2009 8:16 pm:
I have your number sitting right here on my desk, Bill. Steve and I are working our way in the direction of having competent folks like yourself manufacture our houses across the country (world?), but we are still getting everything in place right now. I’m forwarding your comment to Steve (the business minded one of this business) to keep on file. I hope that, when the time comes, you will still be willing.
I’ll call you today.
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Dear Drew
You sound like a well read educated man and i “get ” you ,but you know the old adage ( pardon my spelling im a carpenter) dont shoot the messenger
what i see is jay is offering his plans “replicated” at a fare market value on a per project view point while maintaining architectural integrity ,in other words he doesnt want them to appear to be “rubber stamped” bringing value to each individual and in turn a reverence to the project by the purchaser , i guess its like you will respect what you pay dearly for. On the other hand if his motive was “strictly” profit i agree to mass produce the plans , computerize shipping labels,buy his own plotter and or double size printer and knock em out in theory he could sell them for alot less but it is his “art” . Unfortunately i think you can do almost nothing legally to copycats the govt is overwhelmed , and to think you will recoup monies from as you said those who have not ,is also unrealistic. The only guys who make out in these litigations ( almost none actually make it to court) is the lawyers . So i offer this in my experience people will pay the freight if its something trully important to them, if you have the where with all monies, skill, time , available help and land to build one then the cost of the plans are negligible and if you are just dreaming and the project will probably never be built 1000.00 is inexpensive to pay to be apart of the whole dream. Respectfully to all.
Bill Rockhill
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Drew reply on March 9th, 2009 6:01 pm:
What every Small Business Owner needs desperately at this moment is an infusion of liquidity. Since the pathological Crooks in Govn’t and the money-grubbing Cabal in the Fed Reserve are playing games with our Children’s future, people like Jay have the next best thing–FREE ADVICE!
Jay’s higher than average price points for his market has become the source of much contention. Because he’s emotionally invested into his craft, he prices his product accordingly.
This have created two problems:
1. Price War
2. Piracy
His biggest competitors sell in volume to mitigate their operational expenditures. In a Recession, consumers usually weigh the cost with quality as a value-indicator in their decisions. If a consumer can buy a “Shell” from a Tiny House competitor and install his own IKEA storage units and still shave off about $20k from Jay’s prices, it’s a no-brainer.
Secondly, any 1st year Architectural-Design Student worth his salt can easily replicate or improve Jay’s work.
With more exposure on the Tiny Home space comes more ideas. Sometimes these ideas find themselves on blogs with FREE PLANS and step-by-step instructions. Eventually, the idea of selling “Stock Plans” will either become obsolete or its rates will drop precipitously.
Jay could also find his Plans being traded from unsavory hand to unsavory hand on the secondary market such as Ebay for a quarter of the price.
To hinder the rise of piracy and win the price war, what Jay should consider doing is matching his FEES with his competitors. He would not only corner the Tiny House market with this strategy given the superiority of his Designs over the competition but he would ensure a quick infusion of Cash to finance other projects.
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Jay Shafer reply on March 9th, 2009 8:09 pm:
Consider it done. We do sell those shell plans for $499, and I put a lot more work into proportioning them than most others do.
On a separate note, if you will please stop reiterating how easy it is to steal my designs, I would really appreciate it, Drew. I posted this entry to act as a deterrent, but the accompanying comments are mitigating the effect.
As I have said, my work is copyrighted and some who have stolen or manipulated my designs have gotten themselves into hot water. It is true that enforcing these laws is difficult, but we do our best. What’s more, I am hoping that if I can communicate how much goes into my designs, people will understand why $1000 is really a small price to pay (this is obviously no small feat).
Thank you, Drew.
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dana reply on March 9th, 2009 9:02 pm:
man, don’t you ever shut up? this is a blog, not a war zone!! GET OVER IT!! dana
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Jay Shafer reply on March 13th, 2009 7:59 pm:
Gotcha.
M'Grace reply on February 27th, 2010 3:09 pm:
I think she meant Drew.
There are many very good reasons to buy Jay’s plans.
His tiny houses indeed represent the Mercedes of tiny houses.
They are well thought out and well designed.
As commercial, engineer/architect certified plans (I presume) they are nearly universally acceptable to building inspectors and planning boards.
That is why people buy house plans. That is why people buy boat plans. The plans are simply worth the money.
However, the intellectual property claim is legally weak, and the repeated use of terms like ‘thief’, ‘piracy’ and ’stealing’ is antagonistic. The intellectual property claim shifts the argument away from it’s proper focus; namely, that these plans are worth their price because of the thought and work that has gone into them. They are simply excellent plans.
The economic arguments are a different topic altogether. Perhaps a lower price might net more money; perhaps not. Perhaps a tiered structure would capture a larger market — basic plans for the dreamer who will probably not actually build (in a way, the website does that), and then technical plans with and without support. Only those built from fully-supported plans would have the right to be labeled a Tumbleweed House — part of what you would be paying for is that appellation — which is potentially a valuable commodity, just as boats by particular boat designers are.
That, in my opinion, is the intellectual property that Jay must protect – his reputation as a designer, and his right to acknowledge a house as one of his. If a customer buys plans, but modifies them, Jay should have the right to either accept the changes and certify the houe, or say ‘that’s not one of mine’ and refuse to certify it. In the long run, that may prove far more important than arguments about 12/12 pitch roofs and cedar siding.
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Can’t help but wonder if the usage of the term “Sacred Geometry” illustrated in your new Book is a deliberate reference to the Star of David or the pagan symbol for Moloch?
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Jay Shafer reply on March 18th, 2009 8:35 pm:
It’s not a direct reference, Drew, but those symbols do come out of the same discipline. Of course, there is only one form of geometry. “Sacred” geometry just means that the same ‘ol math is used for a spiritual purpose. It mostly has to do with the universal meaning of archetypal forms and number as used in the creation of churches, temples, religious art and the like. Check out Michael Schneider’s “A Beginner’s Guide To Constructing The Universe” for a much better description and a great read.
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Drew reply on March 18th, 2009 10:20 pm:
Jay,
Fascinating stuff! I’ll have to pick up Schneider’s book.
Aside from Crop Circles and Darren Aronofsky’s “Pi”, Sacred Geometry is also applied in certain areas of Quantitative Finance or Technical Analysis.
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Donna F. reply on March 19th, 2009 12:20 am:
Wikipedia has a wealth of information, no?
Zola reply on March 19th, 2009 2:29 am:
Sacred geometry is also what nature uses to design everything from atoms to galaxies, and that is precisely why it is sacred to nature loving humans and anyone who admires the divine order of the universe. See pictures of sunflowers, snow flakes, sea shells etc for beautiful examples.
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M Groesbeck reply on March 19th, 2009 5:41 am:
Alternately, the “sacred geometry” patterns are models which come delightfully close to describing chaotic patterns and/or emergent phenomena…I’m not quite so sure of myself as to suggest that human geometry is the “real real” behind the universe.
Either way, it’s a very aesthetically interesting set of geometric ideas.
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Drew, What’s nice about free enterprise and capitalism is that if you have a good product people will buy it. If you have a great product people will not only buy it, they will gladly pay you double for it. This concept is what keeps innovation flowing and makes the world a better place for all of us. We need innovators, and when people create greatness, we need to show our support and appreciation for their accomplishments and hard work by paying them for it!!! This assures and encourages the development of great minds for generations. For those who for some reason cannot grasp the concept of free enterprise and capitalism, either through some inherent feeling of entitlement, or perhaps a less than capitalistic political leaning, there are countless lonely hours spent pounding away on a keyboard criticizing the success of others compounded by frustration and feelings of helplessness in knowing that people like Jay are actually harvesting the benefits of his hard work and dedication, and many (hopefully thousands) of people are purchasing his products at fair market prices, and there’s nothing you can do about it. I have a neighbor with the same mindset, and he’s not a happy person. Jay could charge twice what he’s charging now, and I guarantee he would still sell his excellent plans, because they’re better than anyone else’s. With all due respect Drew, take a breath and chill out. Thank you.
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I’ve been a Tumbleweed fan for the last few years and have watched as the web site and product line has changed and evolved and the tiny house movement has gone more mainstream. I’ve puchased two of the portfolio books and have pre-ordered Jay’s latest book. I haven’t bought plans yet as I’m not ready to build. I’m playing with the floor plan on 3-D Home architect so when the time comes, I can talk to Jay about taking those ideas and adding his craftsmanship and design skills to the mix. While I fancy myself as a bit of an amature designer, I know the limitations of my skills. A floor plan and computer rendering are a far cry from a working blueprint that when built, will actually look as visually pleasing as a Tumbleweed House.
I’ve bookmarked many tiny house sites and I’ve seen tiny houses that look like Jay’s designs in some ways, but if you look carefully enough you can see the differences. Jay’s style is distinctive and people will be drawn to it. As many times as I explore other tiny house sites, I keep coming back to the Tumbleweed site or to sites featuring Tumbleweed designs (like the Tiny House Blog).
I agree with James – a well designed product will always sell well. Clearly the amount of interest in Jay’sweb site, blog and products is proof he is “getting it right.” Keep up the great work!
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Did anyone else think the above comment was rude?
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Jay Shafer reply on March 31st, 2009 12:50 pm:
If you’re referring to the one I just deleted… yes. Keep it civil, folks.
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Oh yah, that guy’s a jackass.
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Andrew–you windbag. You talk about looking at the Tumbleweed plans and the amount of “work” required …and then bore us with an unintelligent diatribe. Keep “copying” and talking… No one is listening. Great work Jay. In this age of McMansions and poorly designed spaces your plans are truly refreshing. I intend to BUY Tumbleweed plans in the future… Thank you
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Small rooms or dwellings set the mind in the right path, large ones cause it to go astray. (Leonardo da Vinci)
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Jay Shafer reply on March 31st, 2009 12:48 pm:
Nice one, Rob of the Shire. Had I been aware of this quote, I would have put it in my book.
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A Mine is a hole in the ground with a Liar staning next to it.
(Mark Twain)
A sucker is born with every click on the PayPal button.
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Tyson Stottrup reply on August 23rd, 2009 10:16 pm:
Um. Who’s putting words in my mouth? I seldom quote others, and when I do I get the capitalization right and check my spelling.
If that’s you Drew, you need to get a new hobby.
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Jay Shafer reply on September 4th, 2009 10:21 am:
Let me know if the problem continues, Tyson, so that I can put an end to it if necessary.
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